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Old 03-13-2011, 04:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation My ltz is hard to shift into 3rd PLEASE HELP!!!!!

I have a 2004 suzuki ltz 400 and it is hard to get into 3rd gear and i have had this problem for awile now but not it is really starting to bother me.

please give me some advice on what may be the problem and what may help.
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The shift drum, shift fork, or the gear/shaft itself is getting worn if it's only happening in 3rd gear. If it happened in other gears too I would look at the shift stop mechanism. Most likely you're going to have to split the cases to get it straight.
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Old 03-13-2011, 07:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
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how much do you think it would cost for someone to look at it and fix it
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Old 03-13-2011, 08:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Call around you should be able to get some estimated prices over the phone let them know what you think it is... i would agree with 711... but always make sure your clutch is adjusted properly before doing anything like that. It shifts well into all the other gears correct... Does it jump slightly or make clunking noise when you shift into 1st with the bike running and stopped?
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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No the only problem is it is difficult to get on to 3rd it is not real bad but you know when you go into it and all the other gears go fine and when you shift down from 5th to first it is normal

But the weird thing is it use to be really bad but when i changed my oil like a month ago it did not do it anymore
do you think that the oil could do anything with it?
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
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How long had it been since you changed the oil?.... was it really low?
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Like a month and it was not low it was like half full.

when i first got my atv i did not do it but when i had it for like a month or 2 it started to get really hard to shift into 3rd then when i changed the oil, it still did it just not as bad.
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You should pry change your oil more.. just a suggestion... depending on how much you ride. but i would say listen to 711 seems to be knowlegable... i dont know much about the tranny parts... and what do you mean half full?
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Change your oil more regularly and pay attention to it to make sure it doesn't get worse.
The way the tranny works is pretty simple once you take one apart and play with it. A lot of people are weary of it though. Its basically two shafts with fixed gears and gears that slide on them. The gears are slid back and forth on the shaft by the shift forks. The gears that slide on one shaft engage with what are called dogs (4 little machined bumps on one side of the gear into machined holes on another gear, same shaft) . Those gear mesh and rotate the gears on the other shaft. By having different sized gears on the mainshaft and countershaft you can change gear ratios that way.The shift forks are moved into precise positions by whats called a shift drum. The shift drum is a cylindrical drum with zigzagged groves on it that the shift forks follow. The shift stop mechanism behind the clutch basket stops the rotation of the shift drum in the right position to engage the gears with out letting the shift drum rotate to much or to little so that the forks are in the right position and there by the gears are precisely placed on the shafts.
The third driven gear on the z is mounted on the countershaft without a bushing and it is moved by a shift fork back and forth. If it gets better with oil it could just of been getting stuck on the countershaft because of lack of lubrication and normal wear of the gear and shaft. The other cause could be the gear rotates inside the shift fork with metal on metal contact. Lack of oil inside it could of caused excess wear on the fork or the gear below the minimum recommended by suzuki. With that excess wear on it, it may not be pushing from side to side far enough by just enough to cause it to be hard to engage and make it miss a shift. Or the problem could be on the main shaft. The other half of third gear rides on a bushing on that shaft. If the bushing is warn the gear kind of wobbles on there and makes it hard for the engagement dogs to align properly for that gear.

You'll know when a shift fork is really bad or bent because it will cause a complete misalignment in the tranny which binds the gears and shafts together and the front sprocket will only complete like 1/2 a turn back and forth.
Labor costs depend on shop rates per hour and how long it takes to get the job done. I'd estimate it about like this, get the quad stripped 1 hour, top end off 1 hour, engine out 1 hour, cases split 2 to 3 hours, inspect gears and bearings another 2 hours, replace parts 2 hours. Then reverse the process. Those times are estimated and may change, but I would say they're pretty safe for a mechanic who knows his stuff but not completely familiar with a z. I was able to get my engine stripped, out, and split in about 3 hours after the first time because I wasn't so cautious. I'd guess about 4 hours getting it back together and double checking everything taking my time if it goes smooth. So you can see that you really save alot of money doing it yourself or having a friend you trust doing it. Labor is the most expensive part of any shop repair 9 times out of 10.
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Last edited by 711streetfighter; 03-13-2011 at 11:54 PM.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:43 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 711streetfighter View Post
Change your oil more regularly and pay attention to it to make sure it doesn't get worse.
The way the tranny works is pretty simple once you take one apart and play with it. A lot of people are weary of it though. Its basically two shafts with fixed gears and gears that slide on them. The gears are slid back and forth on the shaft by the shift forks. The gears that slide on one shaft engage with what are called dogs (4 little machined bumps on one side of the gear into machined holes on another gear, same shaft) . Those gear mesh and rotate the gears on the other shaft. By having different sized gears on the mainshaft and countershaft you can change gear ratios that way.The shift forks are moved into precise positions by whats called a shift drum. The shift drum is a cylindrical drum with zigzagged groves on it that the shift forks follow. The shift stop mechanism behind the clutch basket stops the rotation of the shift drum in the right position to engage the gears with out letting the shift drum rotate to much or to little so that the forks are in the right position and there by the gears are precisely placed on the shafts.
The third driven gear on the z is mounted on the countershaft without a bushing and it is moved by a shift fork back and forth. If it gets better with oil it could just of been getting stuck on the countershaft because of lack of lubrication and normal wear of the gear and shaft. The other cause could be the gear rotates inside the shift fork with metal on metal contact. Lack of oil inside it could of caused excess wear on the fork or the gear below the minimum recommended by suzuki. With that excess wear on it, it may not be pushing from side to side far enough by just enough to cause it to be hard to engage and make it miss a shift. Or the problem could be on the main shaft. The other half of third gear rides on a bushing on that shaft. If the bushing is warn the gear kind of wobbles on there and makes it hard for the engagement dogs to align properly for that gear.

You'll know when a shift fork is really bad or bent because it will cause a complete misalignment in the tranny which binds the gears and shafts together and the front sprocket will only complete like 1/2 a turn back and forth.
Labor costs depend on shop rates per hour and how long it takes to get the job done. I'd estimate it about like this, get the quad stripped 1 hour, top end off 1 hour, engine out 1 hour, cases split 2 to 3 hours, inspect gears and bearings another 2 hours, replace parts 2 hours. Then reverse the process. Those times are estimated and may change, but I would say they're pretty safe for a mechanic who knows his stuff but not completely familiar with a z. I was able to get my engine stripped, out, and split in about 3 hours after the first time because I wasn't so cautious. I'd guess about 4 hours getting it back together and double checking everything taking my time if it goes smooth. So you can see that you really save alot of money doing it yourself or having a friend you trust doing it. Labor is the most expensive part of any shop repair 9 times out of 10.
if the swingarm bolt has never been out you can addd many more hours of time =$$$$
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cataway View Post
if the swingarm bolt has never been out you can addd many more hours of time =$$$$
20 lb sledge lol problem solved.
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Old 03-15-2011, 06:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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unless ya miss and take out the engine that would be a great one for youtube LOL
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Old 03-15-2011, 06:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
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if ya do split the engine it would be the perfict time to +4 the crank
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Old 05-06-2011, 07:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
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My 04 Z400 will not shift into 3rd gear. It is like it hits a stop or something. Any ideas or will I need to split the case? Could there be an issue withtransmission gear sensor?
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Old 05-06-2011, 07:08 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Question Z400 will not go into 3rd gear

My 04 Z400 will not shift into 3rd gear. It is like it hits a stop or something. Any ideas or will I need to split the case? Could there be an issue with the transmission gear sensor?
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