oil circulation problems still...PLZ HLP ME

[kfxguy]

Originally Posted by zookie400

after draining the crank case and oil tank, how much oil total did you put back in? when changing oil, i always have to fill the res, run it, let it sit for a few minutes then top the res and run it again. i could never fill it to the proper capacity without running it at least once.

if it is smoking and pushing oil through the breather, you have issues. one of the rings could be cracked, upside down, piston cracked, scored walls...even if the rings are brand new and never have been run to wear in at all, you shouldnt have that much blowby.

Ummm, put a half a quart of oil in the crank case through the timing mark inspection hole. Then the rest in the tank. Voila. Problem solved. Your starting your engine dry i suspect if not. Makes me feel better to know for sure the pickup has oil to pickup.

[spize909]

Originally Posted by zookie400

after draining the crank case and oil tank, how much oil total did you put back in? when changing oil, i always have to fill the res, run it, let it sit for a few minutes then top the res and run it again. i could never fill it to the proper capacity without running it at least once.

if it is smoking and pushing oil through the breather, you have issues. one of the rings could be cracked, upside down, piston cracked, scored walls...even if the rings are brand new and never have been run to wear in at all, you shouldnt have that much blowby.

huh...........my rez will take the required amount in one shot.

[zookie400]

Originally Posted by kfxguy

Ummm, put a half a quart of oil in the crank case through the timing mark inspection hole. Then the rest in the tank. Voila. Problem solved. Your starting your engine dry i suspect if not. Makes me feel better to know for sure the pickup has oil to pickup.

its not really dry, begins oiling almost immediately. its a valid concern but after doing an oil change with the cam cover off you can see it oils almost immediately. even putting it in the crank case i would always need to top off after running it so i stopped wasting my time with that part.

Originally Posted by spize909

huh...........my rez will take the required amount in one shot.

mine would never take it all first shot, not just this engine but all 3 bottom ends i have personally had. whenever i try the oil gets over aerated and pukes out when i try to check it after running it.

[kfxguy]

Weird

[thacker400]

I replaced both plastic gears under the clutch cover so I know thats not the problem.

I can let it sit for hours and it never drains back in the res on it's own.


The smoke isn't blow by I don't think because sometimes it doesn't do it at all then you let it run for a few minutes and it smokes real bad then stops again on it's own and repeats the cycle. it's like there is too much oil pressure and it's going through the intake possibly to leak off the pressure then it builds pressure and does it again. I don't understand it.

I have new valve guides and seals as well.

[thacker400]

oh and i drained EVERYTHING including a new filter. added 2.2 quarts.

which orifice does the oil to the cams come from. i started it with the cam cover off and oil was mainly coming off of the cam chain. didn't notice a jet or anything that i can remember.

thanks for all the advice BTW.

[thacker400]

bump

[spize909]

I think it comes from the journals under the cams. There are holes there.

[CFM-Z440]

Originally Posted by thacker400

spize,

there isn't any oil draining back into the tank when the engine isn't running. I would think there should be a better flow of oil returning to the tank than what there is when it is running.
seems to be sucking the oil in the tank quicker than the return can fill it up, and it never drains back in the tank when i shut it off.

The oil does not drain back to the tank. It is pumped back to the tank at a faster rate than it's sucked from the tank when the engine is running. At least this is how it's supposed to work.

Originally Posted by thacker400

how do u check the oil if it doesnt gravity feed back to the tank? manual says to let it sit for 5 minutes then check it, why is that?

When you check the oil, it's more important that you run the quad long enough to have everything up to operational temp. If you're using a thick viscosity oil, it will throw your readings off when the engine is cold. After the engine is up to running temp, let it idle for no less than 30 seconds before shutting it down, then wait 1 minute, then check the oil. It shouldn't take more than around 2.5 quarts. 2.2-2.3 seems to be about right on average.

Originally Posted by kfxguy

Ummm, put a half a quart of oil in the crank case through the timing mark inspection hole. Then the rest in the tank. Voila. Problem solved. Your starting your engine dry i suspect if not. Makes me feel better to know for sure the pickup has oil to pickup.

Actually the pickup in the crank case just throws it in the tank. The smaller pump that gets oil from the tank is the one that pressure feeds the engine parts

Originally Posted by spize909

huh...........my rez will take the required amount in one shot.

Mine does too.

Originally Posted by thacker400

I replaced both plastic gears under the clutch cover so I know thats not the problem.

I can let it sit for hours and it never drains back in the res on it's own.


The smoke isn't blow by I don't think because sometimes it doesn't do it at all then you let it run for a few minutes and it smokes real bad then stops again on it's own and repeats the cycle. it's like there is too much oil pressure and it's going through the intake possibly to leak off the pressure then it builds pressure and does it again. I don't understand it.

I have new valve guides and seals as well.

It will never drain back to the tank like I said up there^^^

The smoke may be coming from the intake if the black box got filled up with oil some how. I would dis-connect the vent from the black box to the intake and see if the smoke stops. It might not stop right away if there's oil sitting in the intake.




I can think of 3 possible problems.

1 you are using too thick of oil and it won't return properly till it's warmed up so it thins out. What oil are you using?

2 the sump in the crank case is plugged with debris.

3 Maybe there's nothing wrong with it and you're not checking it properly.

Try this. (With the proper amount of oil in it) Let it run for 10 minutes. Let it idle for at least 30 seconds before shutting it off. Wait about a minute. Check the oil. Is oil on the stick? If not, have something else ready that you can use as a dip stick, that reaches the bottom of the tank. Use that and see how much oil is in the tank. If it's not far from being right, then just add a little till it comes out right when you check it. If there's barely anything in the tank, you might have to split the case and inspect the oil system and pick-up screen for debris.

[ZUKI400]

I don't know about you guys but both my bikes with a filter change hold exactly 2400 ml of oil =2.536 qts, perfect on the stick after run and wait 3 min. every time, perhaps it is not full enough?

[thacker400]

i used 20-50 valvloline oil from advance autoparts. thats the only one they had designed for a wet clutch system. guess thats too thick.....

which viscosity oil would you use?

can I blow out the lines in opposite direction to try and loosen up the gunk on the oil screen in the bottom of the motor if that is the problem?

can I use a magnet somewhere to pick up metal shavings if thats what has the oil screen plugged?

I really don't wanna split the cases after I have been workin on it every saturday for the last 2 months to get this far.

as far as the smoke, i posted when i first got the quad before i done anything to it and it would fill the black box completeley with oil and force it into the intake and it would actually drip out of the air box and onto the swing arm. I drained the box as best as I could.

can you remove the black box and just put a small filter on the crank case breather tube?

CFM... big help, thanks man.

[CFM-Z440]

The black box has to stay. The z pukes out of the breather without it. I'd un-hook it from the intake for now, and hook it to a catch can, or a hose to the ground, and see if it stops puking. It should stop after a while. I'd clean out your intake and air box too. It should stop smoking then unless there's something else wrong. I think that oil is too thick. 10-40 is more ideal anyways. That oil you're using being so thick, is going to cause it to keep more in the crank case when it's cold. I think that's your whole issue. This is why, despite what the manual says, I say they need to be checked with the engine up to operational temp. I've seen z's that read low when they're cold, overfill the tank when they're warm.

[thacker400]

thanks for the quick reply...

I am gonna try to change the oil to a 10-40 or 10-30 and try to blow the oil lines out and run the black box to a bottle and see what happens.