Jug: Honing - Suzuki Z400 Forum : Z400 Forums
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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Jug: Honing

So my jug has, I guess, what they call a “glaze”... it’s clean besides light scratches on the two sides (where bottom of piston arms are, seems like).... I’m wondering what the actual “sleeve” (inside) of the jug itself is made of if anyone has a clue.... and what grit or type of ball hone I should get for the metal being honed..

It’s a 94mm bore. Not sure what brand, doesn’t have any name or anything on it.

I’m just afraid my new rings won’t be getting cut and or seat properly to the jug.. anyhelp is greatly appreciated! TIA
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 11:53 AM
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Most of these are coated jugs, not sleeves. Coated jugs probably shouldnít be honed, since it will damage the coating.

'05 Z
94mm bbk, +4 stroker, Hot Cams, Vertex piston, FMF Power Bomb header and Power Core can, KW black diamond valves/dual springs, FCR39, K&N, Elka long-travel LT fronts and rear, Houser +3, +3/4 LT A-arms, American Star pro xs chromoly tie rods, Dyna non-programable, Tusk +3 axle.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 12:14 PM
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These are nikasil coated, and absolutely do need to be honed before installing new rings. You want something close to 240 grit, and you should use a ball hone. Shoot for about a 50 deg cross hatch, and try to keep consistent cross hatch angle.

Make sure that you clean the honing grit out of the cylinder when you are finished. You won't see it, but it's there, and it will ruin your engine if you leave it in there. I like to use dawn dish soap mixed with water, in a sink, just like if you are doing dishes. I use a white paper towel to scrub out the cylinder, and I don't stop until I can wipe it down with a new towel, and see no discoloration.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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So wait.... should I hone it or shouldn’t I? I’ve read both on plenty forums but can’t decide which is correct...?

The one I’ve decided to get from RM/ Atv/Mc, is 320 grit for nikasil

Last edited by 03z400-98; 12-02-2019 at 08:15 PM.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 08:14 PM
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I stand corrected. If CFM says so, itís pretty much gospel.

'05 Z
94mm bbk, +4 stroker, Hot Cams, Vertex piston, FMF Power Bomb header and Power Core can, KW black diamond valves/dual springs, FCR39, K&N, Elka long-travel LT fronts and rear, Houser +3, +3/4 LT A-arms, American Star pro xs chromoly tie rods, Dyna non-programable, Tusk +3 axle.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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Honing it is with the 320 grit.... now what do you mean by the 50 degree? I’ve read and even watched a video ab the 45 degree recommendation... how do you decipher from either? Just how quick it’s turning and how fast it’s going from one end to the other? Cause otherwise I’m completely lost from that....
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03z400-98 View Post
Honing it is with the 320 grit.... now what do you mean by the 50 degree? Iíve read and even watched a video ab the 45 degree recommendation... how do you decipher from either? Just how quick itís turning and how fast itís going from one end to the other? Cause otherwise Iím completely lost from that....
You don't have to get an angle finder out or anything, it's just a recommendation. Anywhere between 40 and 60 degrees will work, it's just works better if you can get it in that range.

320 grit will be fine


There is a lot of disagreement on the topic, and a lot of different recommendations, but I promise you, if there was a problem with honing nikasil, I would have found it already. I've literally done hundreds of them.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 12:46 AM Thread Starter
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Glad you said so... ever had anything come back at all or anything mishappen? I’ve heard a lot between both sides of the fence... NEVER hone nikasil, & it’s perfectly Fine... so I’m not exactly sure... if you say so that’s what I’m going with.

Does there have to be soemtype of coating done on it after? Like special coating? Or just like some wd40 for rust reasons..?

ALSO... what kind of “honing oil” should be used? Like regular oil? Or some trans fluid? Or some other type of lubricant? Or just some reg wd40

Last edited by 03z400-98; 12-03-2019 at 12:50 AM.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by 03z400-98 View Post
Glad you said so... ever had anything come back at all or anything mishappen? Iíve heard a lot between both sides of the fence... NEVER hone nikasil, & itís perfectly Fine... so Iím not exactly sure... if you say so thatís what Iím going with.

Does there have to be soemtype of coating done on it after? Like special coating? Or just like some wd40 for rust reasons..?
That's the beauty of nikasil, it won't rust. I can't think of a time I've seen it corrode at all actually. I've even used muratic acid on it (which will rust steel, and eat aluminum) to remove melted on aluminum off of the nikasil, in 2 cycle's that have siezed. The nikasil was never bothered by anything, as long as it isn't worn through or ripped off.

That brings up another nice advantage to nikasil. Just about no matter how bad you ruin one, Millennium Technologies, or US Chrome, or I'm sure some others, can fix it. I've even had Millennium weld in some gouges or cracks, or cut in o-ring grooves, or about anything else you can imagine. Short of being able to run it to a local machine shop for boring, they're pretty great to work with.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 01:01 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CFM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03z400-98 View Post
Glad you said so... ever had anything come back at all or anything mishappen? I’ve heard a lot between both sides of the fence... NEVER hone nikasil, & it’s perfectly Fine... so I’m not exactly sure... if you say so that’s what I’m going with.

Does there have to be soemtype of coating done on it after? Like special coating? Or just like some wd40 for rust reasons..?
That's the beauty of nikasil, it won't rust. I can't think of a time I've seen it corrode at all actually. I've even used muratic acid on it (which will rust steel, and eat aluminum) to remove melted on aluminum off of the nikasil, in 2 cycle's that have siezed. The nikasil was never bothered by anything, as long as it isn't worn through or ripped off.

That brings up another nice advantage to nikasil. Just about no matter how bad you ruin one, Millennium Technologies, or US Chrome, or I'm sure some others, can fix it. I've even had Millennium weld in some gouges or cracks, or cut in o-ring grooves, or about anything else you can imagine. Short of being able to run it to a local machine shop for boring, they're pretty great to work with.
Thanks for all the information! Very helpful and thorough. One last question, what lubricant should I use for honing? Or should I even use any? Cause I certainly have no idea about these cylinders now... you’ve made me question my whole mechanic side lol
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 09:53 PM
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There is such a thing as honing fluid. In the absence, a light oil, like wd-40 will work. I've even used parts solvent in a parts washer.
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