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Discussion Starter #1
I saw in the new atv sport mag that they removed the radiator overflow tank from a 450R. Could I do the same thing too my z400. I already moved my overflow to the left side of the subframe since they could crack the radiator, but want to remove it for less weight on my quad if I can remove it. I am thinking of putting a hose where the overflow hose went to the radator and run it from the raditor just over the head pipe. So if it does overheat the radiator fluid would make steam on the headpipe so I know it is overheating.

Would this work, I woiuld really like to know if it will. If any one knows anything could you post it. Would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jake
 

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It doesn't just flow out when it runs hot.

As your antifreeze expands the expanded anitfreeze flows into the overflow bottle and as it cools it is drawn back into the radiator.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well I thought that is what it does. But wanted to know if I could take it off and waht would happen if I take it off. ATV sport took the one off their test 450R to fit that tank and plastic brace on the frame they where testing.

I really would like to know thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Man this is a old post of mine. I still have no clue either on it I can or not. So I still have my coolant tank where I moved it to the left side of the subframe. So far it looks cool and works, plus it makes my quad stand out from all the other kfx's.
I am sure you can since my family has lots of olds muscle cars and some of them came from the factory with no overflow tank since some did not need them. But you could add one if you want to. So I think you could remove it if you ride mx but not if you ride for a long period of time though. But you could run the overflow hose from the radiator and mount it so if the radiator overheats it will pour fluid on the hot exhaust pipe and it will steam. THat will let you know to stop riding and that it is overheating. That is what I think, you could try that and see if it works.

But I have no clue if I want to try it but maybe this summer I will and see what happens,

Jake
 

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You just have to remember that it's there for a reason.

As it cools it pulls water back into the tank. The more water you have the cooler it will run in the long run.

Now if you're running full blast it'll just stay full and not draw any back into the radiator, but once you stop and it starts to cool it will pull the cooler antifreeze back into the radiator.

A cooler engine produces more power. (that's a good thing)
 

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I saw one removed, and the guy hooked his fan up to run all of the time. When the key is on the fan is on. He is a pro racer, and has used this set up since '03. He is going to do mine next week.
 

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I think it's a bad idea to convert it to just a pee tube. When your quad warms up the coolant expands and whatever is left over after the system pressurizes gets dumped into the overflow tank. Guess what happens when you forget to replace that coolant that just leaked onto the ground? Blown engine, warped head, something disastrous. Aluminum engines aren't as forgiving as iron when it comes to overheating. It may happen tomorrow or three years from now. Just remember to keep it full and contents may be under pressure when hot. Just giving you some food for thought.
 

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Cars were built without the overflow bottle for over 50 years, there is no performance loss or gain by having one. It does not help keep your motor cooler it just keeps the coolant from leaking onto the ground. The reason for the overflow tank is for EPA regulations. It does help keep your radiator topped off but it isn't nessasary. If you do remove it you will just have to check your coolant levels more often thats all. The con to doing this is polluting the environment by having coolant leak out on the trails.
 

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It definitely help keeps your quad cooler.

While your engine is hot the coolant is pushed into the coolant tank. As it starts to cool it pulls the cooler coolant (out of the tank) and back into the radiator thus helping to cool the engine. Granted if you are running it constantly it stays in the coolant tank BUT:

Like posted above if you remove it and do not replace the coolant that expanded and leaked out you are now running with air in your system once it cools and the more air you have means the less coolant you have (get the picture). Just look at what a larger radiator does for you. More coolant spread over a larger heat dissipating surface = cooler engine.

A radiator that is not full is not cooling to its full potential thus is running hotter.
 

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Sorry but it does'nt help keep it cooler. When the motor is at full operating temps it the coolant expands and pushes out the vent tube. This means you are not using that amount of coolant anyway it is in the overflow tank or on the ground. Yes when the motor has cooled off you will notice it being about a 1/2" low on water but when the water expands again (when the motor warms up) it will be topped off. Believe me you do not need it to keep the motor cooler.

As for a bigger radiator you are right it does keep it cooler because you have more useable coolant to cool. The overflow tank does not help cool your motor, It keeps the environmentally unfriendly coolant out of the environment. I've been building motors since I was 13 and I had 5 certs. in ford and chevy motor, chassis and electrical so I kinda know what I'm talking about.
 

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We're sort of saying the same thing here.

If you take a partially filled radiator and run it it will not cool to it's full potential. Yes as long as you keep it full it will cool to it's maximum potential and yes if you do not have an overflow on it and do not fill it after each ride it will have air in it and it will run hotter.

The reason I say it keeps it cooler is that if you do not check it each time it will have air in it and it will run hotter but with an overflow it keep the maximum amount of coolant in the radiator after it cools so you don't have to keep checking it..

It's just the way we're workig it that makes it seem that we differ on opinion.
 

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No thats not what I'm saying. What I'm tring to explain (which is hard for me over the net) is that you have the same amount of coolant in the radiator at operating temps with or without the overflow bottle. You will only have more coolant in the radiator when the motor is cold with the overflow bottle but you don't need the extra coolant when the motor is cold. The extra coolant in the radiator does nothing to help cool a cold engine.

If i'm not explaining myself well enough, I'm sorry, it's just hard for me over the net.
 

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Originally posted by Tortured Z@Apr 5 2005, 02:17 PM
No thats not what I'm saying. What I'm tring to explain (which is hard for me over the net) is that you have the same amount of coolant in the radiator at operating temps with or without the overflow bottle. You will only have more coolant in the radiator when the motor is cold with the overflow bottle but you don't need the extra coolant when the motor is cold. The extra coolant in the radiator does nothing to help cool a cold engine.

If i'm not explaining myself well enough, I'm sorry, it's just hard for me over the net.
<div align='right'>index.php?act=findpost&pid=355931
[/quote]

Exactlly!

But you do need that extra coolant when you start it back up again.

So we're actually on the same sheet of music.
 

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Originally posted by ALELKS@Apr 5 2005, 07:41 PM
Exactlly!

But you do need that extra coolant when you start it back up again.

So we're actually on the same sheet of music.
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No you don't need the extra coolant to start it back up again, the coolant will expand in the radiator to where it needs to be. If you keep topping it off it will just keep spitting out the exact amout you keep putting back in. Cars have run without an overflow for years, cars with more HP and higher compression that tend to run hotter, without any problems. Overflow bottles were not implemented until the EPA put strict laws on imports in the late 70's, when radiator coolant was getting popular (most people just used water back in the day). From there the domestic cars ended up following suit.
 

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Originally posted by Tortured Z@Apr 5 2005, 02:50 PM
No you don't need the extra coolant to start it back up again, the coolant will expand in the radiator to where it needs to be. If you keep topping it off it will just keep spitting out the exact amout you keep putting back in. Cars have run without an overflow for years, cars with more HP and higher compression that tend to run hotter, without any problems. Overflow bottles were not implemented until the EPA put strict laws on imports in the late 70's, when radiator coolant was getting popular (most people just used water back in the day). From there the domestic cars ended up following suit.
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Here's the problem with that thinking.

Why is an Overflow or Expansion Bottle needed?

Coolant expands as the temperature of the engine increases. When this occurs in the cooling systems the excess coolant flows into the overflow or expansion bottle. Subsequently, as the coolant cools down the coolant is drawn back into the cooling system thus ensuring no air is introduced into the system.

Getting air into the system is not good as it reduces the cooling ability. And like I said if you top if off everytime you stop and take a break (which most people won't do) you're ok.
 

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Actually it's not thinking, that was what it (overflow bottle) was designed for, that is how it was taught to us in class while getting our certification. EPA is one of the major stresses while getting certified. The overflow bottle is mainly for EPA purposes and that is it. Air in the radiator gets pushed out the tube instead of fluid when not using the overflow bottle, you will only be 1 pint short of full which has no bearing on the cooling system.

When I was younger I had a 57' T-Bird (Cherry), a 55' chevy pick up w/396 pushing 580hp at rear wheels (daily driver), a 66' El Camino w/396 built and a 67' El Camino w/350 Blown and none of these had an overflow bottle and I never had a cooling problem.

When I had the 55' chevy I drove from Whittier, Ca. to Las Vegas in 2hrs and 10min. thats 268 miles. When I checked the fluids they were still in the exact same levels as when I left. I also drove around here in Vegas (we all know how hot it gets out here) for 6 years without a overflow bottle and without cooling problems.

QUOTE
Why is an Overflow or Expansion Bottle needed?[/b]
For EPA purposes.
 

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Ok here's a question for you.

If there was an overflow tube on those cars and the coolant expanded and leaked out the overflow tube then how could the coolant level be the same as when you left unless it was already low?

You either had a completely sealed system (which I doubt) or you were constantly running it on a partially filled radiator.

I'm not just making this stuff up.

Here's just one example of what I'm talking about from the following site:

http://www.viperclub.org/instructions/purging.html

In your 1994-2000 Viper, don't be fooled by that plastic bottle under the hood with a radiator cap. It is NOT your coolant overflow bottle! It is simply a "surge tank" which acts as a surrogate radiator cap. (92s and 93s do NOT have a surge tank, they have a "real" radiator cap.) If you neglect the actual coolant overflow bottle, located inside the front fascia, under the RIGHT FRONT headlight, you could be headed for an overheated condition. A dry overflow bottle will cause the surge tank to allow air to be induced into your engine block, while the surge tank appears to be full! The result? An engine that consistently runs warmer and warmer. Not a good thing.

If either your surge tank or your overflow bottle are near empty, you almost certainly do have air trapped in your engine block. This air must be "purged/burped" from a cool or warm (not hot) engine. To burp the air, remove the surge tank cap. Then, turn the heater control to HOT (this opens a valve that allows coolant flow through the heating system). Use a siphon (or turkey baster) to add cooalnt to your surge tank until it is 2/3 - 3/4 full. NOT FULL. Then, slowly squeeze the LF radiator hose as flat as you can....3-4 hands are better than two! As the coolant rises in the surge tank, the engine will visibly "burp" bubbles of trapped air into the surge tank, and the coolant will fall in the surge tank.

Repeat this process a dozen (or more) times, till the bubbles stop. The hose will now feel firmer and full. NOTE: It will be necessary to refill the surge tank to 2/3 - 3/4 full SEVERAL times during this process, depending on how much air was trapped.

Now, if needed, refill the overflow facia bottle to the "COLD" level by forcing coolant down the surge tank overflow hose. A turkey baster also works great for this! (If the facia bottle was TOO full, you'll have to work a siphon tube in through the rubber fenderwell donut hole.) Now, fill the surge tank to full, and cap it tightly. Then, squeeze the radiator overflow hose once more, firmly, to complete the siphon between engine, surge tank, and overflow bottle. You can actually feel, see, and hear the siphon action begin, as coolant flows from the motor, to surge tank, to facia bottle. The system is now FULL..and AIRLESS!

When your Viper has been burped, it could run 5-20 degrees cooler depending on the amount of coolant missing. Your Viper is NOT meant to be "AIR COOLED" you see!





The last sentance says it all.
 

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My coolant level was about 1/2 inch from being topped off (as ALWAYS) before I left. When I arrived in Vegas I clocked in for work. When I got off work (10 hrs later) I checked my fluids, Oil was still good and the coolant was still 1/2 in from being topped off. I wasn't even worried about the coolant I was more worried about the oil level.

You're old enough to remember driving cars without overflow tanks, not sure what the debate is about.
 

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The debate is that you're doing it at a price. That price is a hotter running engine when air is introduced into the coolant system.



EDIT:

Yes you can do it and there are those that do but I'd bet that they only run them for a few laps and of course they rebuild their engines more often than the average person.

Quite honestly I haven't checked but I'd be surprised if I saw a cross country quad with one removed for the reasons I have stated.
 
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