[Oingyboingybob]

Me again....now moved on to sorting the front disk brakes on my Ozark LTF-250. Both of the original calipers were completely seized so the rear brake was the only way to slow down. I've replaced both front calipers with brand new ones, bled the system until I could not face the sight of brake fluid any more, around 8 hours worth in total, but the braking effect remains virtually non-existent with the brake lever travelling all the way to the handlebar grip when pressure is applied. I have also replaced the master cylinder. Using molegrips to crimp the brake hose has the following results, bearing in mind the Y configuration.....1st section nearest the brake lever when crimped does what you would expect ie full-on resistance when squeezing the lever. If I then remove that one andmove onwards, crimp the 2 hoses after the splitter I get the same result. Taking those off and moving them on to each hose very close to the caliper unions produces the same result again which tells me ( I think) that both of the new calipers have an issue and I should return them. Before I do that can anyone suggest anything else I should try please?

 

[amcf18]

Are the bleeders at the top of the caliper, so all the air can escape?
If all the air is out, must not have enough capacity in the lever to shove both pads out enough, either the pads are too far from the rotor still, or possibly wrong calipers? If you block off one side, can you get the other side to work?

 

[Oingyboingybob]

Thanks for replying....yes the bleed nipples are located at the top of the calipers; if I crimp just 1 side then there is a marginal improvement however not enough to be noticed when on the move. The new calipers were my first thought but they appear to be identical to the Suzuki original ones I removed, apart from the price. I got a local mechanic in to have a quick look and he advises it just could be the dics as they are out of spec at 2.45mm whereas 3mm is the service limit according to my service manual, so fairly well worn out by the previous owner - looks like he was happy to ride it with seized calipers for quite some time probably causing the excess wear. Anyway I've ordered 2 new discs (ouch) which should be with me in 3 weeks or so so I'll just have to wait and see.
Oh and removing the hubs was fun, 1 came off dead easy, the 2nd required a medium sledgehammer.
Thanks again.

 

[Sight Z-er]

I just got done fighting a similar issue on my LTZ, I swapped to braided lines and YFZ calipers. After reverse bleeding and vacuum bleeding and some traditional bleeding the lever was still basically going to the bars with no pressure. I replaced my rotors after finding the surfaces to be in spec for thickness but worn uneven so the inside was thinner then the outside.

That helped a little, I then swapped out the pads that came with the re-man'd calipers for a set of new sintered pads and the lever feels really good now, not sure if they were tapered too from the few rides on them or if the pad material sucked. If it's anything like my motorcycle after the pads bed in it will improve feel a smidge more.

Turns out the slight rotor flex and take-up of the pads feels just like air in the system. Hope the rotors sort it out for you.

 

[Oingyboingybob]

I just got done fighting a similar issue on my LTZ, I swapped to braided lines and YFZ calipers. After reverse bleeding and vacuum bleeding and some traditional bleeding the lever was still basically going to the bars with no pressure. I replaced my rotors after finding the surfaces to be in spec for thickness but worn uneven so the inside was thinner then the outside.

That helped a little, I then swapped out the pads that came with the re-man'd calipers for a set of new sintered pads and the lever feels really good now, not sure if they were tapered too from the few rides on them or if the pad material sucked. If it's anything like my motorcycle after the pads bed in it will improve feel a smidge more.

Turns out the slight rotor flex and take-up of the pads feels just like air in the system. Hope the rotors sort it out for you.

Interesting....I'm still waiting for the brake discs to arrive but I've also got replacement hoses on order. Once they are all fitted there isn't any else left to 'fix' so we shall see!

 

[JOE G]

Have you tried to reverse bleed it? I have had that help when I can't seem to get a good feel, The Hayes tyope master cylinders are notirous for bleeding issues ( Found on Arctic cat Procross snowmobiles )

 

[Oingyboingybob]

Have you tried to reverse bleed it? I have had that help when I can't seem to get a good feel, The Hayes tyope master cylinders are notirous for bleeding issues ( Found on Arctic cat Procross snowmobiles )

No, not yet but I don't actually think there's air in the system, there's just too much caliper piston travel before the pads contact the rotor; by the time there is contact the brake lever is just about touching the handlebar grip. I will reverse bleed after I have replaced the rotors and again when I renew the hoses.

 

[LonesomeRider]

I have a vw rail car I was having the same issues with. Bled the brakes over and over and could never get the brakes to work. When I bled them I would add fluid back into the master cylinder and put the cap back on continue to bleed them with no change. Wash rinse repeat. Turns out putting the cap back on was the problem. The master cylinder had air in it but the air wouldn’t bubble out with the cap on. I guess it was causing a vacuum and not allowing a proper bleed of the master cylinder. Not sure if that might help you out or not. Try bleeding slowly also. Pumping the brakes quickly when there’s air in the system causes the air to go from 1 big bubble to a bunch of tiny bubbles and the fluid gets foamy. Harder to get all of that foamy fluid out.


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[quadbernie]

Hello Sometime bleeding brakes can be very frustrating . Have you tried a vacuum bleeder this may be the only way you are going to get the air out of the system . I use mine all the time ,sometimes you can pump & pump till you are blue in the face & you just can get all the air out for the system Try this method remember leave the cap off when using a vacuum bleeder & keep fluid level full as you do it. This is what i use needed it to bleed hydraulic slave cylinder on a 944 porsche it was th eonly way to get the system bled Pneumatic Brake Fluid Bleeder with Auto-Refill Kit

 

[Oingyboingybob]

Hello Sometime bleeding brakes can be very frustrating . Have you tried a vacuum bleeder this may be the only way you are going to get the air out of the system . I use mine all the time ,sometimes you can pump & pump till you are blue in the face & you just can get all the air out for the system Try this method remember leave the cap off when using a vacuum bleeder & keep fluid level full as you do it. This is what i use needed it to bleed hydraulic slave cylinder on a 944 porsche it was th eonly way to get the system bled Pneumatic Brake Fluid Bleeder with Auto-Refill Kit

Not gone down this route as yet. I'm still waiting for the replacement rotors; once they arrive I'll fit them and continue with my efforts.