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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Currently I am in the middle of rebuilding my quad, putting the Lukes 450 kit, new valves, that type of deal. I know with the 450 kit I will be running 13.1-1 so I'll need about 100 octane. Has anyone run E85 in their quad sucessfully. What type of modification do you have to do if any? Since I am also planning on racing the quad, is this against any rules? I believe E85 is about 105 octane, and at least a buck cheaper then regular gas. What do you guys think???
 

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QUOTE (farmernick @ Nov 27 2006, 11:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=552914
Currently I am in the middle of rebuilding my quad, putting the Lukes 450 kit, new valves, that type of deal. I know with the 450 kit I will be running 13.1-1 so I'll need about 100 octane. Has anyone run E85 in their quad sucessfully. What type of modification do you have to do if any? Since I am also planning on racing the quad, is this against any rules? I believe E85 is about 105 octane, and at least a buck cheaper then regular gas. What do you guys think???[/b]
E85+BAD!!!!!!!! one huge no-no!!!! the specs on our quads say we can run no more than a 10% ethanol fuel!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ok the specs might say that, but maybe thats since they never tried it when they made the quad. The only reason you can't run E85 in your car right now is because the computer is not set up to compensate for the more fuel it is needed to run. Our quads weren't set up to run alcohol either and people do it. This in my opinion is better because you have the gas mixed with the alcohol. For those who don't know E85 doesn't mean the octane level is 85, it means the percent ethanol in the mixture is 85% and then 15% regualar gasoline. Another name for ethanol is pretty much moonshine, except they contaminate it with the smallest amount of gasoline to make it unconsumable. Sounds like it would work to me, you would just have to put bigger jets in to compensate for the more fuel it will use.
 

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It can be done, but you will have to keep a close eye on your valve seals and fuel lines, and other rubber parts involved with the fuel.

You will need to jet richer to make up for the alchahol in the fuel. Rule of thumb with alchahol for fuel has always been that you need to run about double what you would normally run with gasoline. The rules change when they are blended though. I believe you need to jet up 35% or so to run it. (engineer told me that once)

People will try to scare you away from this idea, but there are so many wives tales about ethanol, that no one really ever gives it a chance.
Basicaly It is a cheap alternative to race fuel, but I dont think you will find any other advantage.

Do your home work and give it a try!
 

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What's the difference in Ethanol and Alcohol? I ran alcohol in my race car from the get go. CFM is right about the jetting changes that need to be made.....it's a HUGE increase in jetting!!!! The motor ran waaaaay cooler as well. That's another thing about alcohol, you have to be VERY careful or you'll burn a motor down in a heartbeat!!! If you lean an alcohol motor out, it's like having a cutting torch inside you motor....it'll melt down at the snap of your fingers!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The only difference between ethanol and alcohol is that ethanol has a very very small amount of regular gas mixed with it. This way you can't drink e85.
 

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Im not sure of the difference in the propertys other than I believe regular Alcohol(methonal) is methol alcohol, and Ethanol is Ethal alcahol. Im going by things Ive heard here I could be way off.


Im sure there are differences. Ethanol is made with corn. It burns clean, and it is cheap. Beyond that Im not sure.

I do know, however, at our local circle track there is an IMCA modified that runs E85 (to promote it) and he is at no disadvantage in the horse power department!


I think the first place you will run into trouble is finding big enough jets. With my modds (when I still ran a stock carb) I seemed to be on the outter limits of jet sizes for that carb. Once again I may be wrong there. I never searched it out, but I was thinking about runing E85 at one time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Alright so I did some research to find the differences, and of course the internet sucks for this because you get everyones opinion and not the facts. But I did find this website

http://www.ethanol-news.com/archives/drive_on_corn.htm

According to this, ethanol is the regular alcohol made from grains like corn, and methanol is made from wood products and natural gas. Ethanol also has a higher octane and burns hotter then methanol, although both still burn colder then gasoline.

I also looked for jets. I figure that the use of E85 over regular gas would be about 1.5 times. I got this from taking a few case studies and seeing how far they went on E85 vs. gas. So I'm at about 155 right now on the FCR 39. 155X1.5 is 232.5. They make a 230 main jet for the FCR, and the carb is a 25 series carb and they make up to 100 on the pilot. I guess if this still isn't enough they always make drill bits. It would be a pretty cool test to do this and dyno it before and after.

Also with the E85 I don't think you would have to drain the tank after every weekend.
 

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Talked to my engineer buddy...

He said you should set your jetting 40% higher and back off slightly untill you find the right mixture which should be around 35%. That is measuring jet flow in cc's, not jet numbers though. dont forget, you need to raise the size of all of the jets, not just the mains. Pilot, needle, and main


The only problem is that the E85 is not consistant. There is a guaranteed minium 85% alcahol in it. So it could vary quite a bit from tank to tank.

Hope that helps you some
 

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I had a customer try this, I never heard back wether or not he was sucessful. Like CFM said, my first thought was jetting. Something else worth looking into is ignition timing.

I honestly haven't gotten to mess with alcohol much since its alot of work to run it, and very picky!! Most ATV guys here would rather use race gas.

I'd advise you to ask around a local racecar shop or sprint car builder.

Paul
 

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A while back there were some YFZ guys I knew that ran ethanol because they liked the way it could be tuned with gas.

I only run methanol...but if you are serious about running it you had better be ready for some serious tuning and maintenance. It's awesome when it is all dialed in and you know the system, but a real "you know what" before that.

Just for reference I run a 317 main...
 

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What Carb BullDog???


Woody
 

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I run methanol in my drag Banshee and dune Banshee.........all us 2 stroke guys make our own main alky jets. I just drill out stock mikuni or kiehin mains with a numbered (1-60) drill, then chamfer the hole and abra cadabra a brand new custom jet. You can buy a numbered drill set for cheap at harbor frieght or other discount tool store. Another thing to consider is the needle and dump tube. You must pass more fuel thru so you generally run a smaller diameter needle with less taper, and drill out the dump tube. As no point having a .120 main but a .080 dump tube. I usually use unmodified pilots, as they go up large enough in size. Methanol is a pain to dial in, but in the long run is usually worth it. And once you get her dialed, it's just a little tweaking here and there. I will be running my Z on methanol this summer in the dunes, so the 4 stroke alky learning curve begins. The dyna programmable will be my best friend. It will allow me to advance timing to compensate for the slow burn of the methanol.
 

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I have been running E85 in my Z it is basically stock... custom shorty pipe and aluminum airbox with k/n... Stock carb! and waiting on my programable cdi to get some more timing but it runs well now but it definatelly would like more timing... i have a 175 main jet(130stock) meedering rod on the 4th notch and 3 1/2 mixture screw... i can keep up with a stock ds650 with a pipe and beat a trx450r full pipe otherwise stock in a drag race... it was kinda a pain at first i bet i had the carb off 25 times... i still think i can get it better exspecially after getting some more timing but really needs a EGT to get it perfect
 

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Are you still runing e85 I'm thinking about switching over my setup now is full exhaust stock carb 434cc 13.1.1 compression stage 2 intake cam k&n filter no lod black box cdi I'm curious as to if there was any damage done over time to carb petcock
I have been running E85 in my Z it is basically stock... custom shorty pipe and aluminum airbox with k/n... Stock carb! and waiting on my programable cdi to get some more timing but it runs well now but it definatelly would like more timing... i have a 175 main jet(130stock) meedering rod on the 4th notch and 3 1/2 mixture screw... i can keep up with a stock ds650 with a pipe and beat a trx450r full pipe otherwise stock in a drag race... it was kinda a pain at first i bet i had the carb off 25 times... i still think i can get it better exspecially after getting some more timing but really needs a EGT to get it perfect
 

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Are you still runing e85 I'm thinking about switching over my setup now is full exhaust stock carb 434cc 13.1.1 compression stage 2 intake cam k&n filter no lod black box cdi I'm curious as to if there was any damage done over time to carb petcock
This thread is from 2006. Doubt you'll get much feedback from these guys, but maybe someone else will chime in..
 
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