LOL. i'm sorry. jus funny.

 

Big waste of time, unless you plan on modding the hell out of your motor.

You need to determine what your Ignition Coil Reserve Voltage is. That, and Spark Plug Firing Voltage are what's important.

Ignition Coil Output Voltage: How much energy your coil is jamming out, no plug in the plug cap. Most modern bike and quad ignition systems are at or over 40k Volts.

Spark Plug Firing Voltage: How much voltage is required to fire the plug, with it properly installed, in a running engine. Again, most modern systems require 6k~10k Volts to fire the plug.

Ignition Coil Reserve Voltage: how much voltage you have left over, between what it takes to fire the coil (coil output) and how much it takes to fire the plug. In a properly operating ignition system, the Plug Firing Voltage should NOT be more than 1/3 the Coil Output Voltage.

To make it really easy, let's just use 30k Volts.

Ignition Coil Output Voltage = 30k Volts
Spark Plug Firing Voltage = 10k Volts

Ignition Coil Reserve Voltage will = 20k Volts.

That's an example right there that's right AT that 1/3 limit. If you made any motor changes, you'd need to look at the ignition system for possible modifications, depending on what motor mods you made.

Here are a few things that INCREASE your Spark Plug Firing Voltage (and eat into that buffer of Ignition Coil Reserve Voltage):

• Increased Compression
• Wrong heat range of spark plug
• Too large of a spark plug gap
• Wrong octane fuel, for what you're running
• Poorly maintained motor, with deposits in the combustion chamber and on valves
• Improper jetting, be it lean or rich, will affect Plug Firing Voltage, too, but they both have different effects

So, let's look at this ignition system rig you want to build. Let's say you can increase your Coil Output Voltage to 60k Volts. Let's also say it only takes 10k Volts to fire your plug. Let's say your stock Coil Output Voltage was 40k Volts.

On the stock system, you made 40k V, you needed 10k V to fire the plug, and you had a Reserve Voltage of 30k V.

You make a system that now puts 60k V out of the coil. It still only takes 10k V to fire your plug, and your Reserve Voltage has been increased to 50k V. That doesn't help you at all. It doesn't make your plug fire hotter, faster, longer, or anything else. Your plug is only going to need and use what it has to in order to spark across that gap. Everything else is dissipated into the cylinder head.

Fabbing up a system like that would only allow you to make mods that affect Plug Firing Voltage, without crossing the 1/3 rule into the Reserve Voltage. Easiest thing to do would be to open up the gap, and hope for a bigger spark. That's all experimental for you, though, unless you've got the stuff to test those three voltage outputs.

 

damn. I always though those i cat things were bs. The way I look at it and gimmick spark plugs are you can only light a fire once. think about it. If it were as simle as wiring a few caps together and getting more power out of your engine, everyone would be doing it. I could go on and give you plenty of examples and reasons why you'd be wasting your time but normalz beat me to it . I am all about experimenting and trying different things. but hey if you decide to try it...let us know how it turns out.

 

Interesting write up Normal. I have been running a plug all year that (I am pretty sure) is 2x's hotter than OEM. I wonder if I should be running a modified coil or I wonder if I still have enough power left in this "reserve" you speak of.

The quad runs good, but I go through plugs about every other 20 hrs of ride time.

 

Are you running hotter or colder plugs in there now? What's the plug number? Stocker is a CR7E. 2 heat ranges hotter would be CR5E plugs. It takes less energy to fire a hotter plug, too.

 

I was told by the guy at the stealership that it was a bad idea to run a hotter plug, said it would cause more damage down the road. That true? after reading your response i almost feel like it isn't the case if the motor is modified...

 

QUOTE (XC Z440 @ Nov 22 2008, 04:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=712723

I was told by the guy at the stealership that it was a bad idea to run a hotter plug, said it would cause more damage down the road. That true? after reading your response i almost feel like it isn't the case if the motor is modified...[/b]

A hotter plug will cause damage down the road, but that all depends on what you guys are using for a definition of "hotter" and what is reality... Does the dude at that dealership really know what he's talking about, too? Not joking...

Hotter plugs, well, they get hotter. That's all in plug construction, and overlap of the lower threaded portion and the upper porcelain portion of the plug. It's internal, and you can't see it unless you cut a plug in half, lengthwise.

Hotter plugs do get hotter, and if you were to just toss one in your motor, you'll have a huge hot point in the combustion chamber - maybe one that will start glowing red hot. Once that happens, you're gonna have something in the combustion chamber that will cause Pre-Ignition, and that chit will burn a hole straight through the middle of your piston. That hot spot will ignite the mixture, just by being as hot as it is, from combustion pressure. You'll have a "bang" before the coil ever fires the spark plug. Kinda like a diesel motor - ignited by compression, and a hot spot (glow plug in a diesel motor). Not good.

Going hotter is not a good move. Maybe, if you lowered your compression ratio, it might be good - and there are many reason to do that. Not here.

Raise your compression, as an example... Stock LTZ is 11.3:1, with a CR7E plug. Stock DRZ kick bike is 12.2:1, with a CR8E plug (a colder plug). Know why that is? Raised compression would fire the hotter (CR7E) plug before it's supposed to be fired. Higher compression requires a colder heat range plug, just in order to avoid Pre-Ignition...

How many people here change their plug heat range when they do a DRZe Kit? Not many.

I don't think people know what the real "Hotter and Colder" plugs are, nor what they do. That's the biggest problem. People think moving higher in the number of the plug is "hotter," and that "hotter" is better. It's the opposite.

 

QUOTE (NormalZ @ Nov 22 2008, 04:45 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=712717

Are you running hotter or colder plugs in there now? What's the plug number? Stocker is a CR7E. 2 heat ranges hotter would be CR5E plugs. It takes less energy to fire a hotter plug, too.[/b]

I was running through a stocker plug about every eight to twelve hours of ride time. This was with Trinity exhaust, no air box, ported head, hot cams and 39mm fcr. My theory was I was pulling more air and more fuel hence I was working the plug too hard for the amount of fuel and air I was burning. I told the parts dude about it at local quad shop, he suggested the hotter plug CR8E. Since I have been using that size the problem has been gone.

What do you make of that?

 

QUOTE (bigairx400 @ Nov 22 2008, 08:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=712757

I told the parts dude about it at local quad shop, he suggested the hotter plug CR8E.[/b]

That's exactly what I'm talking about, right there. CR7E. CR8E.

CR7E is is hotter. CR8E is colder. The CR8E is a HIGHER heat range plug - not hotter heat range. The higher the heat range, the colder the plug.

You had to move UP in the heat range, to a colder plug, primarily because of compression increases. Your ignition system is working harder now to fire that colder plug, too. That's the point of this whole thread, I think.

What do I make of it? If your "parts dude" really said that a higher heat range plug was "hotter," then he's an idiot. That's what I make of it.

 

QUOTE (NormalZ @ Nov 22 2008, 10:25 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=712758

That's exactly what I'm talking about, right there. CR7E. CR8E.



What do I make of it? If your "parts dude" really said that a higher heat range plug was "hotter," then he's an idiot. That's what I make of it.[/b]

:lol ok now that we have established the parts dude is an idiot. Would it be beneficial for me to pick up an AMR Monster Coil. I have been running this for about a year, am I causing some type of long term damage?

 

QUOTE (bigairx400 @ Nov 22 2008, 09:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=712762

:lol ok now that we have established the parts dude is an idiot. Would it be beneficial for me to pick up an AMR Monster Coil. I have been running this for about a year, am I causing some type of long term damage?[/b]

Well, you're probably not causing any damage, but you might not be getting what you need out of it right now - no real way to tell unless you check your voltages. Ignition Coil Firing Voltage, Spark Plug Firing Voltage, calculate your Ignition Coil Reserve Voltage. Make sure the plug firing voltage is at or less than 1/3 the coil firing voltage. If it's more than 1/3, then you need to change something, just to get the most from your ignition system. Otherwise, it's holding you back, man. You're probably good, at the 1/3 level, with a CR8E in there. Same ignition system on the DRZ kicker and E bikes - same exact thing. They use the CR8E. At this point, it's all up to "how curious are you?" :lol

EDIT - the real numbers on the LTZ, with a good system are typically 40+k V coil output, and 8k V plug firing voltage. That's about 20%, or 1/5th going to plug firing voltage, with about 80% reserve voltage. Stock motor, stock ignition system...

 

im not an electrical engineer, so i may be wrong, but wouldnt capacitors inline before the spark plug "soak up" the voltage and cause retarted timing?

 

well im in my second year in college for electrical engineering believe it or not, and saying this is a stupid question, means well your an idiot. the reason people cant just put a capacitor infront of your spark plug and make your spark just last that much longer, is because a 45kv capacitor would probably run you $60 plus. it also to answer your question, wouldnt affect it enough to make a difference, if it was done properly because a parrallel branch always has the same voltage in a circuit. the idea would be to use smaller capacitors, suck as a 5kv 300pf, wired in series, and then put in a parallel branch of the ignition circuit. you could do this a few times depending on the amperage of the system/type of capacitors/and peak voltage. its been done before, what do you think a nology hotwire is? 3 capacitors wired in parallel. tons of people use and swear by them, and if i can build my own i plan on doing it. When voltage is applied to a capacitor, it opposes a drop in the circuit, therefore, the sparks peak voltage curve would last longer, giving a brighter spark.

 

ok well then, sounds like you have this all figured out....let us idiots know how you make out!

 

QUOTE (jmax857RACING @ Nov 23 2008, 07:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=712874

well im in my second year in college for electrical engineering believe it or not, and saying this is a stupid question, means well your an idiot. the reason people cant just put a capacitor infront of your spark plug and make your spark just last that much longer, is because a 45kv capacitor would probably run you $60 plus. it also to answer your question, wouldnt affect it enough to make a difference, if it was done properly because a parrallel branch always has the same voltage in a circuit. the idea would be to use smaller capacitors, suck as a 5kv 300pf, wired in series, and then put in a parallel branch of the ignition circuit. you could do this a few times depending on the amperage of the system/type of capacitors/and peak voltage. its been done before, what do you think a nology hotwire is? 3 capacitors wired in parallel. tons of people use and swear by them, and if i can build my own i plan on doing it. When voltage is applied to a capacitor, it opposes a drop in the circuit, therefore, the sparks peak voltage curve would last longer, giving a brighter spark.[/b]

is it all really worth the output you will gain...all the math all the work. just buy a monster coil and be happy.

if it did make more ponies or better spart don't you think AMR or zuki themselves would have done it already?

do what you will and let us know how many 450's you smoke.

 

Wow, what a jackass. I's sorry I even posted any info in this thread to such an idiot.

Jmax, if you're IN your second year of college, for electrical engineering, then you're less than 1/2 an electrical engineer right now. Also, with no real-world experience, and just book knowledge. Secondly, if you're so damn smart, what the hell are you doing on a message board asking for opinions on something you think you're so smart at in the first place?...

Enjoy, hope it all works out for you.

 

i am a graduated mechanical engineer.... you will be really surprised how different real world applications are vs the theoretical book application. I have tried the "i'm smarter than so and so who has done this for 50 years just because the formula says that i should be able to do this" but in reality you have environmental unknowns that cannot be accounted for. not saying you cant figure something out but you have to account for the magnetic field created by the stator and rotating engine in general plus all the harmonics and frequencies, vibrations etc.. that will be a "environmental unknown"

there is still a ton of information that has not been found. you might be on some groundbreaking technology but i would keep the details quite until you get a patent

 

QUOTE (NormalZ @ Nov 23 2008, 10:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=712931

Wow, what a jackass. I's sorry I even posted any info in this thread to such an idiot.

Jmax, if you're IN your second year of college, for electrical engineering, then you're less than 1/2 an electrical engineer right now. Also, with no real-world experience, and just book knowledge. Secondly, if you're so damn smart, what the hell are you doing on a message board asking for opinions on something you think you're so smart at in the first place?...

Enjoy, hope it all works out for you.[/b]

I love how everyone can bash me, then i say one thing and apparently im the jackass. i never asked for an opinion, the only question i asked was the peak voltage and amperage the stock coil outputs. and i never said i was smarter than everyone else. and besides im 1/2 more of an electrical engineer than you will ever be. and it doesn't matter what i say because apparently you know everything, and you have a little cult following, that agrees with your every word. whats the point of this site, if you cant even ask a question without getting some flack? it appears everytime i ask a question someone has to try and bash me down and someone has to be a know it all. but in the end im not the 40 year old bum who devotes enough time to have 10000 forum posts, in my opinion thats a waste of life. so in the end maybe you'll figure out you are the real idiot.

 

im on your side jmax, there are even people here that dont even own a z anymore who post sarcastic remarks. they are either jealous or have way too much time on thier hands.

 

QUOTE (deviousdvx @ Nov 24 2008, 05:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=713054

im on your side jmax, there are even people here that dont even own a z anymore who post sarcastic remarks. they are either jealous or have way too much time on thier hands.[/b]

man thats the truth, its not even like i called "him" an idiot. just the guy who cracked a joke about my idea being "funny"

 

lol...im an idiot...lol

 

QUOTE (deviousdvx @ Nov 24 2008, 08:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=713054

im on your side jmax, there are even people here that dont even own a z anymore who post sarcastic remarks. they are either jealous or have way too much time on thier hands.[/b]

last time I checked, the site is called suzuki central .

 

QUOTE (jmax857RACING @ Nov 24 2008, 08:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=713047

Im not the 40 year old bum who devotes enough time to have 10000 forum posts, in my opinion thats a waste of life. so in the end maybe you'll figure out you are the real idiot.[/b]

WOW are you clueless?

You may want to do some research as to whom you are referring to. He's done more in the last 20 years than most people get a chance to do in a lifetime.

 

QUOTE (jmax857RACING @ Nov 24 2008, 08:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=713047

I love how everyone can bash me, then i say one thing and apparently im the jackass. i never asked for an opinion, the only question i asked was the peak voltage and amperage the stock coil outputs. and i never said i was smarter than everyone else. and besides im 1/2 more of an electrical engineer than you will ever be. and it doesn't matter what i say because apparently you know everything, and you have a little cult following, that agrees with your every word. whats the point of this site, if you cant even ask a question without getting some flack? it appears everytime i ask a question someone has to try and bash me down and someone has to be a know it all. but in the end im not the 40 year old bum who devotes enough time to have 10000 forum posts, in my opinion thats a waste of life. so in the end maybe you'll figure out you are the real idiot.[/b]

thats the joys of posting on a PUBLIC FORUM. everyone has their own opinion, and, they arent afraid to say it. so, if you dont like what other people have to say, then dont post.

normalz is anything but a 40 year old bum. I feel sorry for you jmax, I really do. you'll be getting reamed in a pm, I can promise you that. :lol

 

QUOTE (deviousdvx @ Nov 25 2008, 02:35 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=713054

im on your side jmax, there are even people here that dont even own a z anymore who post sarcastic remarks. they are either jealous or have way too much time on thier hands.[/b]

I guess that means me?? I no longer have a Z, so I must be jealous or have waaay too much time on my hands. I think not. Why would I be jealous? I have had several quads since the Z. Most would consider them a step up from the Z, so thats even less chance of me being jealous of you or anyone owning Z's. I earn an honest living working 40 hours or more busting my azz, and I believe I deserve to frequent any site I want. The people who no longer have Z's, have since moved on to other quads. Some would say the "old" members here are pioneers, that contributed alot of knowledge on the Z's. Much of that info is still helping others today. Too bad that when the older members leave or move on, this site and its contents are slowly going down hill.